I agree with a two state solution if it can "ensure that both sides have a place they can call home." But is this really feasible when one side dreams of "free Palestine from the river to the sea"
Or have you forgotten that Hamas' charter calls for the elimination of the "Zionist entity" and the extermination of its population. Calling for negotiation with Hamas is like asking the Jews of 1943 Warsaw to negotiate with the Germans. The difference between then and now is that Jews can now defend themselves.
Fatah has accepted Israel's exitence--provisionally. Learn the difference in Arabic between salaam--peace--and hudna--truce. Arafat signed a hudna in 1993, not salaam. How do we know? He said so:
“Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel.”
From https://medium.com/illumination-curated/palestine-israel-slogan-demolition-and-1712e39e9c1d:
December 23, 2000–January 2, 2001: Israel accepts and Arafat rejects the Clinton Parameters: 94–96% of contiguous territory in the West Bank and 100% of Gaza, compensated by land swaps elsewhere + an East Jerusalem Palestinian capital comprised of Arab areas with sovereignty over the Dome of the Rock. As in 1937 and 1948, same old story: Arabs say no to a Jewish yes:
“Clinton asked each side for a yes or no response by December 27th. It was made clear that a “yes” meant agreement within the Parameters and that a non-response, a maybe, or acceptance outside the Parameters would all be considered rejections. Clinton presented the Parameters as take-it-or-leave it, and if not accepted, they would all be off the table once Clinton left office on January 20, 2001.
“Arafat’s negotiating team’s) memo specifically clarified that the return the Palestinians demand is to “‘their homes,’ wherever located — not to their ‘homeland’ or to ‘historic Palestine.’” The memo further…rejected defining the new Palestinian state as “the homeland of the Palestinian people” because “this nullifies the right of return.” Finally, the memo enshrined the Palestinian rejection that a Jewish Temple ever existed: “In the first formulation regarding the Haram, accepting that the Western Wall is a part of either ‘the space sacred to Judaism’ or ‘the Holy of Holies’ will amount to implicit recognition that the Temple lies under the Haram.”
As Israel’s Foreign Minister in 1966–74, Abba Eban said, “the Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity”. Saudi ambassador to the US, Prince Bandar, said the same thing differently to Arafat after the PLO leader lied when Bandar asked him if he’d said yes to the Clinton deal:
““I hope you remember, sir, what I told you. If we lose this opportunity, it is not going to be a tragedy. This is going to be a crime.” …”I wanted to cry, my heart was burning at how the opportunity was lost again and perhaps for the last time…”
Watch Cory Gil-Shuster's The Ask Project video interviews of ordinary Palestinians who say what they want from the Oslo accords. Transcripts in here:
https://medium.com/the-judean-peoples-front/palestinians-say-what-they-want-eaab778266b8
and here:
Question 1: Would you make peace with Israel if it left the West Bank and Gaza entirely? Sample answers (not sampling error):
Ahmad, Jericho: “There will be peace when the Zionists leave all of historic Palestine. Palestine is owned by the Muslims and the Christians.”
Nizar, Nablus: “Of course. All people in this country want peace. We don’t want war.”
Mohammad, Nablus: “The land is originally ours. It’s all ours. There is no dividing.
CG-S: So if the solution was two states, you wouldn’t accept it?
Mohammad: “That wouldn’t work. How would it work? Two states won’t work.”
Shuruk and Nadine, from Sarif and Dahariye (in Hebron): “No.
CG-S: Why not?
Nadine: “How can we forget all the things they did?
CG-S: How did France forget about Germany? Poland about Russia?
Nadine: I don’t have the right to say if I forgive them or not. We lost their homes here.
CG-S: We’re in Hebron, BTW.
Shuruk: It’s like the right of return. Would you give up the right of return? You can’t ask that of someone (who was a refugee) Yes. Yes.
Nadine: We live here, but a lot of Palestinians are refugees…
CG-S: But I’m asking you as a person. Would you make peace with Israel if the West Bank and Gaza became Palestine? Just you. You would accept it.
Nadine: If they leave us alone and go out absolutely and never, never, never take our land.
CG-S: Meaning they live in Israel and you live in Palestine?
Nadine: No, there is no Israel.
CG-S: Wait, so they have to leave everything? They have to leave Tel Aviv, Jaffa? Haifa?
Nadine: Yes. It’s Tel Aviv. It’s Tel Arabiya. It’s our land and they took it.
CG-S: So the only way you’ll make peace with Israelis is if they leave Israel completely?
Nadine: Yes. That’s the reality. I can’t forgive them. We come back to that part.
________
Can There Be a Two State Solution?
Ahmad, Ramallah:
CG-S: So there could be two states?
Ahmad: Well, Israel is not a state to call it a two state solution.
CG-S: So, once Israel leaves the West Bank and Gaza, what is Israel?
Ahmad: Israel is a people from all over the world. Here it is Palestine and in Israel it is the inside of Palestine. So they are in our land. It’s our land Palestine. It has no other name.
_____________________________
Raed, Ramallah: Yes, why not, if they left us alone in Palestine.
CG-S: They would still live in Israel.
Raed: Ah, you mean leaving just the West Bank and Gaza? No, no, I don’t accept.
CG-S: You don’t accept peace? Why?
Raed: What about the people they killed before? We have to take their rights.
CG-S: Yeah, but in every war people are killed and when you make peace, you say “okay, it happened.” In every war, every people.
Raed: Yes, but it’s our land. Why give it to Israel?
CG-S: I don’t think you have a choice. What are you going to do?
Raed: I think there is a choice. With time we can have a choice.
CG-S: So what do you think will happen?
Raed: I don’t know actually. But I believe in our people.
________________________________________________
Shaim, Ramallah:
CG-S: For you, if Israel left all the West Bank and Gaza and there was Palestine, would there be peace with Israel?
Shaim: Like if they have gone? I don’t think so.
CG-S: For you? Would you accept peace?
Shaim: They will not allow us to have our lives. They want to control everything in our lives. Because they think this is their land and they want us to go away.
CG-S: Hold on. Stop. Let’s say they decide the West Bank and Gaza are Palestine, would there be peace with Israel?
Shaim: For me, I see how they act with Palestinians. There will never be peace between us. They think they are God’s chosen people.
CG-S: But let’s say they agree that this is Palestine.
Shaim: Palestine is…We have our Palestine. West Bank, Gaza and the lands of 1948.
CG-S: So can you give us the lands of ’48 for peace?
Shaim: No.
CG-S: Why?
Shaim: Where are you from?
CG-S: Canada. Yes, I’d give up my land for peace. In a second. Not a problem. You can have it. Take it.
Shaim: You say it. It’s just words. We can’t. It’s our land.And there are a lot of people that got out of the land and they want to come back. They have their homes, their lands.
CG-S: Come back to Haifa? Jaffa? That’s what you mean?
Shaim: It’s home. It’s not up to me. I say I want peace, but I’m living in the West Bank and I have my home. There are a lot of Palestinians that don’t have their homes. They want to come back home. So I can’t decide. They can decide what they want.(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uftxLGWjEKw)
This article is part of a long history of gentile expressing sympathy for dead Jews, but a lot less for live Jews who are capable of defending themselves.
How Palestinians Define “Occupation”
“It took me two to three years to realise the Palestinian understanding of the occupation is different to that of a Canadian living in Tel Aviv. Many Palestinians regard Jaffa and Haifa as occupied too….For example: if the Palestinians I talk to are in favour of one state, I suggest that Jews from France or the U.S. could come and shop in Hebron, because the city is holy to them. Then I get the answer: “No, that‘s impossible, the one state is for us — Palestine is Palestine. But if the Jews want to live under us, that‘s okay.” That is a very mainstream opinion.” (https://en.qantara.de/content/interview-with-ask-project-initiator-corey-gil-shuster-ask-israelis-ask-palestinians-beyond?nopaging=1)
There is one professional Palestinian polling firm that surveys West Bank Palestinians’ opinions. The % of Palestinians who are ready to recognize the Jewish state of Israel is: 3%. The % in Israel ready to recognize a demilitarized independent Palestine approximately according to the Clinton parameters of 2000-01 polled in the 40-50% range BEFORE October 7. Now? Fuhgetaboutit.
But there is no Palestinian counterpart to The Ask Project. This conflict is full of cognitive asymmetries, of which this is just one.
The idea that your customer service de-escalation skill set is applicable to this kind of cognitive asymmetry is narcissistic hubris and beyond ridiculous.
